"Good audio will get you through times of no sex better than sex will get 
you through times of bad audio."  -- Lena and Roberta

The Indie-List Digest.

Volume 2, Number 34

November 30, 1993


In this issue:

Mod's Message: Invitation to Delurk
The K in K Records revealed! 
Mary Lou Lord, Kaia Wilson, and Unwound
Sterolab/Unrest at the Grand, New York City
Unrestereolab, reviews, etc.
Live review: My Dying Bride


But first...

I guess I should apologize for my actions and attitude of the last
couple weeks regarding this list.  Mark warned me there would be days
like this... :)  Without realizing it, I let the actions of a few
members of the list totally obscure the fact that 99% of the readers
aren't causing problems and are quietly reading, writing for, and
generally enjoying the list, which was the original intention in
creating it.  

Just to get it on the table, my reactions were a combination of: 

1. Getting 10-15 messages/issue from various MAILER-DAEMONS regarding
non-mailing of the list.  (Refer to the FAQ for more on this subject.)

2. Getting 5-6 messages/week asking me to remove people from the list.
As I've tried to make very clear in the last couple weeks, we have a
separate subscription manager who's doing a really great job on fairly
limited time, Liz Clayton.  After learning a little more about the
mechanics of the "bloofga" account this weekend, I'm utterly amazed that
Liz continues to deal with this stuff.  

3. A series of fairly nasty personal crises revolving around classwork,
my impending thesis, the radio station, and my almost-non-existent
personal life.  Maybe this is also a requirement of being list-editor...

4. Seeing a large stand-up figure (almost life-sized) of M**** B***
when I went to buy blank tapes last saturday at the local Sam Goody
(really, it was just blank tapes...they somehow have the best prices in

I thank everyone who's sent me mail or talked to me in person about all
this's not really so bad as it seems, but when you log in and
check mail and the first thing that greets you is the message I got
Friday night, well, you tend to go a little ballistic.

In response to a letter I got from Glenn Susser, I'd like to start a
formal "letters to the editor" section of the Indie-List.  (It's always
been a possibility, just never a formalized concept.)  So, if you have
comments about the list/its management/random things that don't really
apply anywhere else, please send them along to me.  "Letters may be
edited for length and clarity of statement, and must be accompanied by a
daytime phone-number and social security number for verification
purposes." :) 

And, here's the first installment of such letters, which I've already
sorta responded to above...


From: Glenn Susser <>
Subject: the silent majority

I wish you guys would just ignore the schmuck who wrote the message about
taking over the indie list from you, um, young 'uns.  He's just one, um,
fucktard, speaking for himself.  I'm almost twice your age, and the fact
that "kiddies" run the list doesn't bother me. On the contrary, I welcome
your refreshing views.  It seems every list on internet gets fucked up by
some asshole(s) after a while.  Don't let it happen to the indie list,
please!  Don't play his game by even acknowledging his assinine remarks.

Why not have a letter to the editor column?  That way people can voice
their beefs and add random comments.  It could be quite interesting.

who's never too old to rock and roll


From: Stephen Epstein<>
Subject: Re: ARRRRRGH!

>And as a public response to mr. "why do we need an editor"'s a 
>letter I received from Brian Thomas:

 [letter deleted for bandwidth space...] 

>I don't want to be a dictator, or an asshole, but some people are
>starting to drive me in that direction.  Keep it up, and this list could
>follow the fate of the Sonic Youth list, which has been closed down by
>its owner.  

I hope you'll take this as constructive criticism:  I have noticed a sense
that the list is being edited much more since Mark left.  Well, maybe
"edited" is not what precisely what I mean, but the tone of the list has
been very different the last few weeks-- slightly more abrasive perhaps. 
Reread the above two paragraphs for examples of the editorial tone you are
setting.  I'm not complaining, really, but I thought I'd point this out,
because you might not even be aware of it.  I have a feeling this is what
the previous poster was getting at.


For the record, I'm a fairly sarcastic person...but my bark is usually
all that anyone sees - I don't generally get worked up enough to bite.
But people who don't recognize my sarcasm (and it's tougher to recognize
when you can't hear vocal inflections and the like) won't always realize
what's going on.  So take things I say here with a grain of
salt...please? :)



From: "K. Lena Bennett" <>
Mod's Message: Invitation to Delurk

Upon scanning the survey responses, I notice we have a lot of overseas and
Canadian posters who perceive the Indie List as U.S.-Centric.  This seems
like one of those chicken-and-egg problems.  People who might post about
non-U.S. bands think their input would be unwelcome, so they don't post,
thus perpetuating the U.S. focus of the list (since U.S. people are still
posting).  I'm sure the other members of the junta would echo me in
stating that it's up to you to define the tone of the indie list, and
welcoming you to give us input on bands in your area that we might not
be exposed to otherwise.  We can only write about what we know! 

The majority of the surveys are coming from "lurkers" (non-judgmental
term), people who do not post.  We've always welcomed postings from people
no matter who you are.  In the early days of Indie List some potential
posters (including myself) were intimidated by the fact that the major
contributors to the list (let's just single out Sean as an example) appear
to majorly participate in the music scene, have lots of information and
trivia, collect a lot, and just in general "know more than the rest of
us." But you don't have to be a maven to post (look at me -- I know
nothing!).  You just have to like music that doesn't get a hearing
through the usual popular channels, have an intelligent outlook on it, be
able to string some sentences together, and post them (to me not to
bloofga).  I'll still reject postings that are about major label bands or 
whose review is no more specific than "they rock," but I think most of 
you are capable of telling us what you like and why you like it.  That's 
all it takes, really.

Also, have it be known that I've only rejected two postings in nearly 6 
months as moderator.  I believe Josh's record was similar.  Don't let 
anyone tell you that this list is "elitist."


"Come on baby, let's see those knees/open up to that ocean breeze....
I want a man in a skirt!"  -- Cockpit


The K in K Records revealed! 

Lena sez:  This posting is from Joe Gross, one of two people I have
recently wooed into subscribing to the indie list out of the putrid swamps

Joe says:
     A word regarding yr [that's Mark's] glossary entry for K Records. I
know something of the genesis of the K logo i.e. "what it stands for..."
     [Paraphrased w/ addtions from a 1991 interview in MOLE #2 (out of the
lovely and vapid 'burb of Reston, VA...)]
     Calvin used to live in suburban Maryland; he graduated from
Bethesda-Chevy Chase High School (home of many DC rockstars, including
Jenny Tsunami).  While in high school he worked at one of the K-B cinemas
located all over the DC/MD/VA axis (I think he was at the Cerebus in swank
yet youthful Georgetown).  At the job, employees got jackets with the K-B
logo (stylized K-B in a shield) on the back. Calvin thinks "wouldn't it be
cool if I started a label called K-B Records; I'd already have the
jacket." The "-B" was dropped, the shield and K gained their child-like
graphic power, and what followed is Olympia/indie/rock history. 

    And now you know the rest of the story.

                    Have a nice Thanksgiving

[Lena notes:  Of course, we all know that K.B. is the initials of my 
first and last name (not to mention those of the lovely and talented 
Kathleen Billus of the Sebadoh family)....  Conspiracy theorists take note!]

[On an almost unrelated note, there's this odd zine a friend found the
last time he was at Maxwell''s a large single sheet of paper
printed on both sides, and I can't remember the name of it, but it has a
very dumb poem (with accompanying dumb looking picture) from the
Bethesda/Chevy Chase yearbook of 1986 from Jenny anonymous
person gave it to the zine editor with a note explaining that the intent
was to expose Jenny for the theater "geek" that she was... she's come a
long way since then... :) - Sean]


From: Steven Silverstein <>

OK.  Where to start:
Mary Lou Lord/Kaia/Lisa Librarian/Chris from Purple Ivy Shadows/dorky kid in
     dress, Fast Forward Records, 11/18, Providence. Lisa Librarian opened
with 3 songs acoustic (not quite) solo.  She was sort of nifty.  It was
her first ever show.  Marylou Lord and Kaia (Adickdid) got caught behind a
broken down truck and got there late.  In the interim, people left, which
is too bad.  Oh, Lisa Librarian used a plastic egg-shaped thing that
sounded like a salt shaker as a pick in 2 songs, which was really nifty.
To fill time while waiting for Marylou Lord & Kaia, it became "open mic"
or some such nonsense.  Chris from Purple Ivy Shadows played a country
sang, while Erik sang backup vocals and shook the same plastic egg that
was previously mentioned.  That was really cool.  They're neat new
neighbors to have around. Marylou Lord played first and was really great
and the songs were cool and she's really talented.  She explained that one
original ended up unintentionally sounding like "Just Like Heaven". 
Kaia's playing was a bit more dynamic though less technically interesting. 
Both were really cool.  Afterwards, Marylou Lord and I discussed her
name's appearing in the Helium interview in Wind Up Toy.  She hadn't seen
it and was quite curious. 

Laurels/Helium/Kudgel/Edsel, AS220, 11/19, Providence. 
	Edsel on first.  Played lots of new stuff.  Quite a really solid
set from them, though I still find them unamazing (just good).  They're as
nice as everyone says.  They have a new 7" I didn't get to buy.  It's on
whitish vinyl.  They ended with a neat noise thing.  Next was Kudgel.  Fun
to see!  Mark wears a dress and sings bent over into a really low mic in a
bizarre voice, and they all` keep knocking over the drums.  It was fun and
the songs were decent, esp. the unrecognizable version of R. E. M.'s
"Rockville".  Third was Helium who were amazing and as good as I expected. 
Finally was Laurels, who used a smoke machine and played lots of new
stuff.  Jeff has very little hair now, and wore glasses too.  A good show
all around. 

Stereolab/Lovebox/Tyrannosaurus Caesar, Last Call Saloon, 11/21, Providence.
	I missed some of Tyrannosauras Caesar's set.  Apparently the
highlight was the opening feedback and noise, which I missed.  This is
Michael Cudahy from Christmas and Peter Philips from 6 Finger Satellite. 
Curiosity value.  Next was Lovebox.  This was not a great set from them,
with long breaks between songs and Stephen noodling too much.  Snarf.  A
huge crowd was there, somewhat surprisingly--are Stereolab that big now? 
Anyhow, last was Stereolab, who were SO AMAZING.  This was just a great
show from them.  The "unstrest" sticker built out of Perfect Teeth
stickers was really great on the bass drum.  Quite an impressive set.  See



From: Joy Fisher <71511.16@CompuServe.COM>
Mary Lou Lord, Kaia Wilson, and Unwound

This is my first indie list submission so please hang on while I get the 
hang of all of this.


Since Feb. when the Stars Kill Rock compliation came out, I've been raving
about one girl to everyone on the face of the planet. I knew in my gut
that this was the girl that she's going to take over indie rock in a few
more releases. And when I found out that she was coming to Los Angeles, I
would have jumped off the tallest building to see her. Then, her single
came out and it spent two weeks nailed to my turntable. Next, I found out
she was being interviewed at our radio station. I had to meet this girl.
So, finally, I met Mary Lou Lord. She even remembered I wrote her for more
of her music. 

Then, she played an acoustic performance at Jabberjaw. She was pretty good
but unfortunately she had the flu. Mary Lou had to sit down half way
through her set. I think her performance was okay but I think she'll be
better the next time around. Sometimes bands are tons better after you're
more familiar with the band's material, too. So, I'll probably enjoy Mary
Lou tons more after I have heard more of her work which, by the way, is
released by Kill Rock Stars out of Olympia, WA. 

Next, came Kaia Wilson who also performed acoustically. She used to be in
a band called Adickdid, but they broke up. So, she's doing to solo thing
now.  Kaia is quite impressive. Whereas Mary Lou came off a little loose
(maybe 'cause of the flu), Kaia was tight and knew how to keep your
attention for the 20 minutes of her set. 

Then, the last band on was Don Caballero. I sat outside. I really am not
interested in them and they were really loud especially after an acoustic


Lync is another of those bands that is showing great potential. I met
their roadie the night before while standing outside the Tsunami show.
That's how I found out they were playing and became real excited about the
Unwound show. 

Lync are just so toe-tapping good. The band really combines punk and pop
very well. That's about all I can say about them is that they're good and
they put a smile on your face. If you want to check out their stuff, they
have two 7" currently out. One is on Magic Pail, and the the other is a
split release with Magic Pail and Landspeed. And their next 7" will be
coming out on K records sometime soon. Watch out!!!!!!! 

J. Church was okay. I liked the first part of their set 'cause it reminded
me of Jawbreaker. But that might be because Adam the drummer for
Jawbreaker was filling in. But I think the part I especially like about
their set was the covers of Girlfriend in a Comma, and Creep (by that
one-hit wonder band Radiohead). If only they put out a single of these
covers, .... 

Finally, Unwound hit the stage. I saw them play all the way back in
January. They were so horrible the first time I saw them. But something
happened to them over the course of the year. Somehow, I knew they would
have broken up or dumped some band members. After that show, I didn't care
about Unwound. But then the Fake Train LP came out. Something was born! 
They got a girl drummer and cared about their music. This time they played
they still had the chaos and guitar feedback of last time. But a new
poppier Unwound was birthed. It sort of reminded me of the the punk Versus
which really isn't that bad of a comparison. Their whole set was enjoyable
and they achieved a balance which was lacking during their last

- That's it for now! "I'll meet you in LA"

"Hey Little Punker keep on Punking" - The Meices

bye bye,
amalea fisher


From: Michael Hauben <>
Sterolab/Unrest at the Grand, New York City

First of all, let me say the survey prompted me to send this in. I dunno
how useful it will be, but as such....  This gig was absolutly sublime.
Sterolab opened, and made my night memorable. They played much off of
their latest LP "Transient Random-Noise Bursts with Announcments", and
other stuff. I have only heard their latest album, so I do not know which
other stuff they played.  This show was absolutly mesmorizing and
hypnotic. It is incredable that they were able to pull off their sound
live, using 2 Synths (1 Moog, and 1 Farfisa, or 2 Moogs??), a guitar,
bass, 2 singers, drummer and sometimes a tamberine. In addition to the
utterly mindbending music (sorry, but this was one of the best shows I've
seen this year), went the lead singer. I hope not to offend anyone, but
she is absolutly sensual. This concert pleased many of the senses. The
vocals in French are especially nice. 

Sadly at this New York Show, very few people seemed to be dancing - and
when you have such exquiste music that one can lose oneself in, this seems
strange. I guess as long as they were able to enjoy it in their own

The live sound came out much clearer than the recorded sound. The
interplay and exchange between the two singers brought a new level out
from some of the songs. Often on the album it is easy to confuse the
voices. (Laette's voice is very distinctive, but on the recording they
seem to blend together.) But live, you knew when they traded off or
harmonized and the effect of two vocalists was more effective. 

After Sterolab did an encore (which Unrest did not), I went and bought the
split single. I haven't gotten to listen to it yet - but the songs are a
remix of "Where are all thoes Puerto Rican Boys?" by Unrest (originally
from the 4-AD 13 Year Itch special commerative CD - which is a really nice
instrumental. I was sort of disappointed they didn't play some version of
it), and "Mountain" by Sterolab. 

I had a programming assignment due the next day and originally decided to
leave after Sterolab so I could finish it up and get a decent amount of
sleep - no can do. I had seen Unrest once before when they opened up for
Fugazi several months ago in New York City. I did not particularly like or
dislike them. However, Roseland is a horrible venue - and often bands can
get lost in the size. Tonight they proved exciting. Their stuff was
basically new for me, but I enjoyed their style of "speed"-pop. (If you
can call it that.) Basically they are very tight and enjoy playing complex
melodies FAST. Mark sang most of the songs, but the other two both sang
one song. Bridgit's song was dedicated to "A friend who was imprisoned for
endangering a policeman's life." People cheered - but she didn't say much
more than that. Does anyone know anything more about this song? I was
extremely impressed by the drummer. He seemed top notch (not that the rest
of the band wasn't - but he was the element that impressed me from the

One last note - this is the most croweded I have seen the Grand, and I
have been there to see numerous shows - one of my favorite venues in NYC -
and often having among the most inexpensive shows. (This was only $8 -
$9.75 by ticketmaster - geez!!!)

All in all, as I said before, this was one of the best concerts I've been
to this semester. (Geez, this semester has been full of the BEST concerts
I have seen! Dead Can Dance, Orb, Verve, Sterolab/Unrest.) I was sad I
didn't have enough cash to pick up a Sterolab shirt - does anyone know if
these might be available? If they are still touring and this show comes to
town - GO, you will (or might now) not be disappointed, IF you enjoy music
that you can lose yourself in. 



From: Douglas Wolk <>
Unrestereolab, reviews, etc.

Been a while since I've sent anything to this list. It's good to have a
few moments to relax again. 

Before I get on with the good stuff, a plug and a gloat (junta-types, cut
at will). On Dark Beloved Cloud, God Is My Co-Pilot's "Su Vot Vot Esta Su
Voz" 7" is out. Email me at for details of how to get a
copy. And at my day job at CMJ, I'm happy to report that the January issue
of CMJ New Music Monthly will include a free CD with songs by the
Spinanes, East River Pipe, Labradford, Eggs, Railroad Jerk, Tara Key, Mary
Lou Lord, Bob Dylan and the Afghan Whigs, among others. Whew. 

So I got to see Unrest/Stereolab a couple of weeks ago. Both bands were, I
think, the best I'd ever seen them. Stereolab are reaping the benefits of
having a broad stylistic variety of stuff--it used to be that two out of
three songs were "Roadrunner"/"Sister Ray" rewrites, and now everything
sounds different and wonderful. And when I grow up I want to have a job
singing "bada badaba" for a living. (Or, for that matter, holding down a
single chord on a Vox organ for an entire song.) And Unrest was playful
and fun, doing a bunch of familiar material (the inevitable
"Cherry"/"Suki"/"Cath," which admittedly are all starting to sound the
same, the also-inevitable "Isabel," which changes its style every time I
hear them play it) and some completely unexpected stuff like "Oils" and
"Can't Sit Still." Bought a copy of the Unrest/Stereolab split single,
too, which, um, wasn't life-changing. But hey, what is? The best thing
about Unrest right now is that Bridget is becoming a very good bass
player. It used to be that she was a very bad bass player who was
tremendously creative to make up for a lack of raw ability; now that she's
getting good, she's still got that creativity, and her bass parts are
always effective and often completely non-intuitive. Nifty. 

Lots of other new music has been coming my way, some of it even
worthwhile. My favorite recent single is still Mary Lou Lord's amazing
"Some Jingle Jangle Morning" (Kill Rock Stars), but Grenadine's "Don't
Forget The Halo"/"777" (TeenBeat/Simple Machines) is gaining on it
quickly. Yes, a Jenny Toomey-sung record that I actively like. And Mark's
instrumental on the flip is no slouch itself. Let's see: one of the
Beastie Boys (I forget which) is in a hardcore band called D.F.L. who have
an 11-song 7" out on Grand Royal. If fairly competent hardcore is your
bag, this may fit neatly into that bag. Or you could get 5 or 6 packages
of King Dons instead. 

Got a bizarre demo tape in the mail a few days ago which might well be to
the tastes of a bunch of you. It's by a band called Mr. Quark, called
_Enjoy Nuoc Mam With Mr. Quark_--four songs that suggest a collaboration
between the TV Personalities and Costes heavily doped up with Ecstasy
laced with Prozac. I'm not fuckin' kiddin', man. If you send something
interesting to Christophe Degoutin, 27 Rue Croix-Bosset, 92310 Sevres,
France, I'm sure he'll send one to you. 

Went to Kim's Underground yesterday and bought a copy of the Flying Saucer
Attack album. Though I've only listened to the first side as yet, it's
very, very nice fuzz-psych-buzz stuff, and beautifully packaged, too. My
copy (they seem to be only available on vinyl) had "666/1000" written on
its label. I figured they all said that, but checked the others in the
store just to make sure; sure enough, they were numbered 665, 667 and 668.

A week or two ago there was a really nifty show at Thread Waxing Space
here in the city. It was the last night of a gallery exhibition there for
Steven Kane (is that his name?), the guy who did the sleeve of Silver
Jews' _The Arizona Record_; there were paintings by him all over the
place, and a box in one room labeled "ART SALE. HONOR SYSTEM. $5--SMALL
AND TAKE THEM HOME AT THE END OF THE NIGHT." I ended up going home with a
couple of great ones, one each for my apartment and my office. There was
musical entertainment, too. Railroad Jerk totally failed to impress me, as
much as I loved their acoustic 7" on Walt. Jon Spencer Blues Explosion, on
the other hand, were utterly wonderful. Jon's really got the essence of
'56 Elvis down pat--I didn't say he tried to imitate him, I said he has
the essence of him. He's also picked up a bunch of tricks from circa '71
James Brown (my biggest musical obsession)--for the next two days, Dawn
Sutter and I kept imitating Jon going "BLUES EXPLOSION! BLUES EXPLOSION!
BLUES EXPLOSION!" And he even covers JB's "Lost Someone." I kept fighting
the urge to scream "SING IT, MOTHERFUCKER, SING IT!" in the appropriate
places. He didn't do "Son Of Sam," but that was okay, 'cause a couple of
days later I got the new Chain Gang CD with the original version from '76
and have been grooving on that. 

Anyway, the final band of the evening was War Comet, which was essentially
a slightly expanded version of Silver Jews (there was a cellist and
another person or two, and Bobby Nastanovich wasn't there). They played
one or two songs I recognized (including "Secret Knowledge of Backroads"
and an Echo And The Bunnymen cover), and a whole lot of new things, most
of which had David singing with Steve adding a phrase or two here or
there. All the new ones sounded like first-take improvisations that had
been painstakingly reconstructed as band pieces--harmony vocals, everybody
playing together, stuff like that. Very interesting and pretty good. 

One last note: TeenBeat 50 is finally out on Matador; don't know if it was
worth the wait (the wait was hella long), but it's quite good. There are a
few previously released things (a Krokodiloes song, Autoclave's "Dr.
Seuss," Vomit Launch's cover of the Bats' "Block Of Wood"), a couple of
silly covers (Erin and Don Smith altering the lyrics of the Pooh Sticks'
"On Tape" to include references to "the original _Three Tea Breakfast_" et
al., "Teenage Suicide" with some overdubbed vocals from Naomi Wolff) and
some genuinely terrific new stuff (an acoustic instrumental by Bastro is
my favorite). A nice sampler of Mark Robinson's aesthetic--his taste for
great pop, stupid novelties, and things that are both at once. 

Douglas D. Wolk
"Did you give up punk for Lent?" -- Rebecca Gates


From: Michiel

Live review: My Dying Bride

Ever seen a metal band with a violin-player? My Dying Bride really does
have one (though the guy sometimes plays the organ too) and it sounds way
cool. First the support act: G.G.F.H. Techno-death metal -house, not
exactly my cup of tea. Sorry, he had his moments but I don't like bands
with too much samples and stuff. This guy did have too much. He was on his
own with a tv set and a tape with the music. Later I heard the car had an
accident so most of the equipment was destroyed, so this was kind of a
stripped down performance. ** It was good and solid but I prefer a real
band and that was up next: My Dying Bride. I didn't know any of their
albums so the whole thing was a surprise party. A real party with lots of
hair flying around (Heavy metal great and small, bang your head against
the wall!). This really was something. Doomy loud wild heavy breathtaking
noise. Wow. It's not the first metal I've seen and it definitely won't be
the last but this surely was one of the best things I've ever seen (much
better than the Melvins!). **** (+)

Thank god, I've got some money to buy records. Don't Panic, you won't hear
me tell you I bought the last Michael Bolton album ..... coz I didn't.
It's just the last Afghan Whigs album I'm really diggin' at the moment.
Gentlemen, are they? Don't know, and I really don't care. They still make
great music, which has become more like full album projects instead of
songs you can play independently. The new things they've done live sounded
great, just like the album was going to sound. **** (+)

Rest of the new records was Big Red Letter Day (Buffalo Tom) and The Last
Days Of Pompei (Nova Mob, hey sorry it took a long time to get a hold on
that one). Nice and fun ***

That's it for now    :-),

[I guess they have star inflation over in Europe.... - Lena]


The Indie-List Digest is published every Tuesday and Friday by the
Indie-List Infotainment Junta, Unltd.

What       Who              Where

Editor     Sean Murphy
Moderator  K. Lena Bennett
Mailings   Liz Clayton
Archives   Chris Karlof  
           FTP/Gopher       /pub/music/lists/indie @

Consultants: Mark Cornick and Joshua Houk

Indie-List is not copyrighted. It may be freely reproduced for any purpose.
Please cite Indie-List as your source.

 please send your articles for the next issue to LENA!

[Submitted by: karlof chris knox  (
               Tue, 30 Nov 1993 11:02:07 -0500 (EST)]