You know, there's been a lot of talk around town, that I'm on the make for
John's girl, you know, Ike is on the make for John's girl... 


     Indie List Digest! 

     January 26th, 1994

     Volume 3, Number 7 


Kicking Giant Tour Info
orchids - best band in the world!
Milkmine etc.
"I Wanna Know!"
Studio Red, Erik Voeks, WBRU
VS, nrst @ *cld Tvrn, Clv*lnd h*
Thinkin' fellers - Friendly show and sk'lasfg'aklsdfg
and a call & response segment from the editor...


(Slow Loris)

But first - some administrative notes.

1.  THERE WILL BE NO INDIE-LIST THIS WEEKEND.  The next issue should mail 
out on Monday night, January 31 (unless I'm in chapel hill - more on that 

full responsibility - I'm an occasional slacker, soon to be full-time 
slacker (that comes in June, after graduation).  We're human, really, and 
sometimes we don't have the time to keep this thing on a tight schedule.  
We try hard, though...


(i do have more to say, but it's of a musical nature, so I buried it at 
the end of the list...)


From: (Laurence Roberts RD)

Kicking Giant Tour Info

Just got this postcard today with tour info.

Fri 1/21 Eugene, U of O  - The Fir Room
Sat 1/22 Berkeley - Gilman St.
Sun 1/23 Santa Cruz - Retro Cafe
Tue 1/25 Fresno -  Beat's Mee
Wed 1/25 LA - Cafe Troy (418 E 1st St)
Thu 1/27 UCLA - THE COOP
Fri 1/28 LA - Jabberjaw w/ Canopy
Sat 1/29 Claremont - Pitzer College 
     w/ Mt Goats & Evergreen
Sun 1/30 San Diego - TAAANG RECORDS
    (978 Garnet St. Pacific Beach)
Tue 2/1 SF - Bearded Lady (485 14th St)
Wed 2/2 SF - Epicenter (tentative, call
Thu 2/3 SF - 200 Clare St.
Fri 2/4 Arcata
Sat 2/5 Portland - X Ray Cafe w/ New Bad Things

All dates all ages.




"Let's do that GRUNGE THING!!!" 
     (from a Ford (I think) commercial)

Dear ILIJ and Others on the IL,
     After a quarter on this list and over a year on the Net in general, I
am finally opening my fat yap and losing my "lurker" status with this
letter; somebody congratulate me already!! I'd like to ask the readers a
few questions about what I guess is known as FOXCORE, and comment on
Sean's rant on the live v. recorded thang. (Oh, and yes I expect you will
edit this for clarity and length :]....)

     First off, let me make my little pomo confession: I know very little
about indie culture, and what I do know is second hand from my obscenely
snobby roommate, who's typical response to the question "Whaddya think
about (insert band name here)?" is "Oh, I dunno, I like their early stuff,
but after the first few seven inches, they seem to have gotten (insert
snotty pejoritive term for success)." So my knowledge is limited to the
fact that last year's LAZY COWGIRLS album was critically acclaimed and
"arguably their best work," the Ex's releases always have really great
packaging, and Rollins is a "snore." I want to know more about loud noisy
snotty GERL RAWK, not whether or not the new Lungfish is better than the
last, and I ain't gettin it (!) from my roommate. So maybe I can strike up
a conversation with someone who knows the genre, can tell me the
difference between riot grrl and foxcore, but at the same time won't
snicker at me for my woefully inadequate record collection (which has more
than its fair share of Joni Mitchell). HEY, ANYBODY OUT THERE?? 

     Here's two specific questions: What are the Smears all about? Or
the Oilers? (I went record shopping yesterday...don't know who either of
them are from Eve, but shure shook it when I got the 'em home and played

     About the live v. recorded thing: whatever yanks yer krank, sean. I
got a Girls v. Boys album a couple of years ago and dug it, saw 'em live
and they sucked (which was probably due more to the sound system of the
venue than anything). They played first: the sound was really muddy, the
band looked painfully bored, and the crowd was content to sit on their fat
asses. Disillusioned but hopeful, I went to see them again in November,
and was shocked, appalled even, at how good they'd gotten live. They'd
taken on this straightedge crowd (which made me feel like a boozy old
divorce') that was considerably more active than the last bunch two years
ago. It was a great show: noisy, raucous, great vibe between the bassist
and the drummer, lots of interaction with the crowd. (I just got their
_Venus Deluxe [Blah Blah Whatever]_ and it's not as satisfying as that
live show was...of course.) 

     I read a quote somewhere from Liz Phair or somebody that I think
applies, about the performer-audience relationship: it's like having great
sex with somebody you don't even know. And if yer feelin like a
"one-night-stand", but are too cheap to buy condoms, well.... There's
something about performance that squeezes out the puh, the love-goo the
musician's been saving up, the jiz that almost never gets communicated
in recording, but only if the audience interacts. (hey, i'm rambling...)

     BTW, GVSB are coming to Slick City in a couple of weeks, as well as
Rocket from the Crypt (one of my roommate's pet bands), and I'll continue
this anti-lurker posting shit with a review.... 

fomo, wombat and faminist
"but i'm not fertile!!!"



orchids - best band in the world!

This week's record review:

The Orchids - Striving For The Lazy Perfection

Always a good week when your favourite band releases a new record, its a
great week when that record is as good as this. The best record ever
recorded, from the best band in the world, probably. 

Its stronger than Unholy Soul, yet builds on that good yet sometimes too
restrained LP. The Orchids use technology, and use it as it is supposed to
be used. To enhance, to improve the traditional g/b/d combo. Yet this is
not hardcore, or industrial if thats what you think i mean but brilliant
guitar pop augumented by rave culture and neato stuff. 

Its the best record ever recorded, until the next one.



Subject: Milkmine etc.

Got a package in the mail from Choke records recently that included an
excellent 7" from an Ohio band called Milkmine.  They're a trio -- two
guys on bass (one does vocals) and a drummer.  Nicely noisy and the vocals
are low in the mix (hooray!!) so it works on both speeds.  Oh yeah, the
songs are "skelch" and "split tail."  Nice chunky distorted low end sound. 
Grr snarl lyrics about closeted homosexuality. 

Re: live performance vs. records

I don't know that the two are really comparable in any meaningful way. 
Seeing a band live is very much a social event -- you can hear a really
great band live and still have a bad time if you don't have a socially
satisfying evening.  (One of the most dismallly sad nights of my life
involved seeing Chris & Cosey in Brighton in 1987 by myself -- it was an
incredibly great show, but I had a lousy time anyway.) Really great
performances can overcome the social setting, but the fact still remains
that the social aspect of seeing bands has an impact on how you react to
the music.  Since you can play a record over and over again, in different
settings and moods, you can more clearly separate judgements regarding the
music itself from other factors.  In addition, sound quality and sheer
volume make the two experiences radically different.  Finally, there is a
difference between seeing and being part of the interaction between
musicians and the audience and hearing spontaneous interaction between the
musicians themselves, and hearing the carfully crafted and polished
outcome of an extended recording process. (obvously there are exceptions,
but I'm sure y'all get what I'm saying)

Also, I'd just like to say that when people "in-charge" say they first saw
a live indie band three years ago I feel very, very old.  (Hell, I felt
really old when Douglas told me that hearing "Songs About Fucking" was his
first real punk experience! :-))  [If it makes you feel any better, Ben, 
I saw Husker Du in 1985. - Lena.]



From: Mike Schmelzer <>

I wanna know!

1) What does DQE stand for? (Grammatically, not politically.)
2) What band is Paula Kelley from Drop 19's in now?
2a) It is Paula Kelley who used to sing for Drop 19's isn't it?
3) What is the 19th cut on the _Kill Rock Stars_ comp?
4) Don't the Yoyo studio comps (Throw and Julep) just 
   totally rule or what?
4a) Are there any more? Are there any in the works?
5) Don't the _Kill Rock Stars_ and _Stars Kill Rock_ comps also 
5a) Any more of those in the works?
6) How long has the Eggs Bruiser been out?
7) Who else thinks the Melting Hopefuls are kinda groovy?
8) How was the Working Holidays party? (sorry if this has been 
8a) Will they do a CD of the Working Holidays series?
9) Is Sue Harsch the nicest person alive or what? (They're not 
   booing, they're yelling "Sue".)
10) Why aren't you listening to the Big Boys anthologies right 
11) Are the Richmond Music cooperative comps any good?
12) If I wind up working in New York, should I live in Brooklyn 
    or Hoboken?
13) So where the hell is the Raincoats reissue?!?
14) Is there any way to get the Liliput anthology cd for less 
    then $30? Any easier way than mailing to Europe?
15) Has anything as good as _Slanted and Enchanted_ come out in 
    the last two years?
16) Can anybody put their finger on Jacob's Mouse and explain 
    exactly what it is about them that I like so much?
17) Is Mark Edwards the reincarnation of Ian Curtis?
18) Where can I get an Indie List T Shirt? (How are they coming along?)
20) How's the WPRB comp coming along, Sean? How can I preorder?

And now for some context: I live in tiny Madison, WI, where for any given
cool record (just for example, say, Barbara Manning's _One Perfect Green
Blanket_. Or the Yoyo Throw comp for that matter) about three copies
show up for the entire town, which means if you snooze, you lose. Which
means for me that I miss out on a lot of good stuff. 

Over Xmas vacation, I returned to Philadelphia and visited Minneapolis,
where I proceeded to buy things like Throw, _Stars Kill Rock_,
Bruiser, _The Fat Elvis_ (Big Boys anthology), _Fountain Island_ (Sarah
Records compilation) and a couple of the Working Holiday singles
(especially the one with MDID) and a new Liz Phair 7". There is just no
way, expect for extreme luck, I would have found any of them in Madison. 

My fiancee recently got _Slanted and Enchanted_ on cd, and I began
listening to it excessively again, just like when I had access to a

Live reviews? I saw Scrawl at the 7th St. Entry in Minneapolis.  They
ruled. Marcy had equipment problems and spent a lot of time tuning, so Sue
and the drummer filled the time by jamming a bass heavy beat. I also saw
Slim Dunlap, at the Uptown I think, and couldn't tell him apart from a bar
band. A pretty rockin' bar band, but still... 

Oh yeah, to Bill Whitson: I have the opposite impression of the Spinanes.
I wasn't too turned on by the Spitfire 7" but absolutely adored them
live. Plus their T-shirt is one of the best I've seen in a while. (This
was the same show where I got Rose to sign my self-made "Let's Tiger Trap"
T-shirt. Two shows later, they broke up. Coincidence?)

Oh yeah, Sean Murphy: Right after the WPRB newsletter article on pinball
machines, Film Threat does an article on their favorite pinball
machines. Coincidence? 

That's it for now. Sorry about the unfocused nature of this post.
;; Mike Schmelzer,, (608)251-1293. Finger for PGP.
;; Yeah, you're on my list too, pal. - Gravity's Rainbow

[Um, quick answers to a few questions - DQE is Dairy Queen Experience, 
Brooklyn's probably better than Hoboken, and you can mail me privately 
for more info on 'PRB stuff.  For those who used to listen to WPRB in the 
mid/late 80's, the now-refined Mr. Schmelzer used to be known as "Mr. 
Mike" - one of the rockingest DJs at the station (along with Rockin' Tim 
Kastelle...) - Sean]


From: Aaron Schatz <>

Studio Red, Erik Voeks, WBRU

Hi, I just got back from my California vacation (yes, that was a 6.6
earthquake that we had) to find lots of indie lists that I wanted to
respond to.  First of all, some guy from Middlebury was also at the Studio
Red show here in Providence.  I too was very disappointed that Versus
didn't show up. As for the other bands - I took two of my friends (Josh
Baron - Bowdoin and Bree Horwitz - Bryn Mawr if people know them from
those schools) to the show and they were blown away by Scarce.  I'm
telling you - yeah, they may sound a little mersh (Bite my tongue, I like
a little mersh) but they are going to be big stars.  Joyce the bassist
isn't like she is on stage in real life - she's pretty quiet, but yeah,
she's really neat.  We also liked Halo Bit, but you have to admit that
Alex thinks he's Evan Dando up there.  Even Josh liked them, and he hates
Small Factory (blasphemy!) I also agree that Gigolo Aunts were mediocre
(they act like big rock stars) and I can say that now that my possible
show with them at Babyhead fell through (just a small delay before Salty
Timmy finally comes out of hiding). 

As for Helium.  Geez, I just don't get it.  They're massively boring, and
when they're not boring they're noisy for no reason.  I don't understand
the hype. 

A reccommendation - in the WBRU Free Bin (That's where the station sticks
all the stuff we don't keep - mostly lame major label singles, but often
good indie stuff) I found an album by a St. Louis guy named Erik Voeks
called "Sandbox" on Rockville Records.  Not really indie-sounding, really
Matthew Sweetish only w/o distortion, but the melodies and harmonies are
great and there's some interest- ing guitar playing.  I've been listening
to it constantly for two weeks now and I heartily reccommend it if you
like that Beatlesque pop thing. 

On WBRU - yes, I was joking, but I do in fact work for them in the news
department.  I know things would be better if Brown had a real college
station to go with BRU but as an educational experience for college
students there's nothing like it.  Hey, what other major market radio
station has a 20-year-old Music Director and a 21-year-old General
Manager.  And for a journalism guy like me, regular college radio would
massively suck - no opportunity to interview the governor and stuff.  And
hey, I'm trying - we got them to play the new Scarce 7" in regular
rotation, and I'm sure we'll play Velvet Crush when that comes out. 

[Um, there are plenty of stations in major markets, some of them 
commercial, too, with complete student staffs (does your MD get to decide 
which mersh cut is #3 this week?)... sorry, just a pet peeve of mine - I 
know people are trying up there, but BRU gets too much press for the 
quality of the station... - Sean]

Oh, and the guy who asked for best of the year - Versus' Let's Electrify
EP, Unrest's Perfect Teeth LP, Uncle Tupelo's Anodyne LP, April March's
5-song CD single on KokoPop (another relic from the BRU free bin), US3's
Cantaloop single and best shows (Providence) - Unrest/Versus/Johnny Cohen
at Babyhead in February and Fugazi/Shudder To Think/Scarce at Lupo's in

Aaron Schatz                             "All that is necessary
Brown University                          for the triumph of evil                is for good men to do nothing."
(401) 863-5599
P.O. Box 3994, Providence, RI 02912                    - Edmund Burke
Corresponding Secretary, Zeta Delta Xi


From: Jeffrey A. Curtis <jac15@po.CWRU.Edu>
Subject: IL: VS, nrst @ *cld Tvrn, Clv*lnd h*

VS, nrst @ *cld Tvrn, Clv*lnd h*, Jn*ry 24, 1**4

Being a bass player myself, I find that there is just something that kind
of ...oh how do I say this in a politically-correct way?...ah screw it!...
turns me on about bands with female bass tonight, I was
really beside myself.  [That's okay, I get turned on by girl drummers -
you should've heard me going on about Lois's drummer, Amy, a.k.a.
Pebbles.- Lena] I also just prefer bands that are sexually integrated...I
think you need to have that kind of dynamic that having a healthy boy-girl
mix in a band can bring.  Besides, women are usually such good bullshit
detectors that you can usually count on a "mixed" band to have some degree
of integrity, I find. 
        Anyway, first up were VERSUS!  Is it true that they are called
that because none of their songs have any choruses?  In any event, they
were a lot less confrontational than such a name led me to expect.  They
had an interesting look, a truly international kind of thing going on
there, although the two guys were really uninteresting-looking.  As a
whole, Versus had absolutely no stage presence, at least not until their
last coupla songs when they started moving around a little.  The bass
player had real obviously dyed-black hair, which matched her tshirt and
made her bright red jeans stand out rather remarkably.  She was a pretty
good singer, and a very interesting bass player too, pretty inventive bass
parts.  The songs she sang were mostly kind of quieter, kinda melancholy,
kinda droney...the band seemed to be the tightest on these songs too, if a
bit generic-sounding.  The songs the guy guitarist sang all sounded to
me like Snc Y**th rip-offs.  For some reason, in between every song,
the three of them just kind of sat/stood there and looked at each other
for about 5 minutes while the place got real quiet.  The bass player would
just stand there and sip from her drink.  I mean they weren't even tuning
or anything, it looked like they were trying to decide if they should play
any more songs, or trying to remember if they knew any more songs or was weird.  This was between every song!!  Finally the
guy singer said, "There's people looking at us! We'd better play
something!"  sheesh!  They had really cool tshirts though, which I might
have bought if I was going to get paid sooner than I am: they were
brilliant blue with a big fat yellow Captain Marvel lightning bolt on the
chest, and on the back it just said VERSUS! in the Captain Marvel
lettering style, with a lightning bolt for the exclamation mark.  Pretty
        Next, Indie-List poster-children UNREST wandered on stage. Bridget
the bass player (!) was wearing this really bright red lipstick that
matched the color of her bass--not to mention the color of the Versus
bass-player's jeans!  I am not a big Unrest fan, I have the Isabel
Bishop cdep which I mostly got for the Teenage Suicide song, and the rest
of it is so-so, I need to listen to it more I think.  I also saw them a
couple years ago at a free outdoor festival here in Cleveland, which was
the first time I'd seen them, and I thought they were great then.  This
show was much more understated.  Almost exactly half of the stuff they
played was really quiet, hushed songs, which was interesting, and kinda
neat for a change, but not terribly exciting.  They did do Teenage Suicide
(yay!) and a song I think is called Suki (well that's what he keeps
saying) that I remembered from the last time I saw them.  Their fast songs
made me think that they really owe a great debt to the Buzzcocks.  The
slow ones made me think of Yo La Tengo but I'm not sure why.  I also think
the slow songs were to blame for it seeming like they didn't play very
long, when they actually did play for about 50 minutes...well that isn't
really very long, but it seemed even shorter than that.  My favorite thing
though was their encore, where they played this pretty long instrumental
song that consisted almost entirely of just one chord, and variations on
it, played fast, slow, loud, quiet, etc...I love that!  I remember them
playing it the last time I saw them too...Does anyone know the name of
that song? 

[HYdroplane hyDROplane hydroPLANE... um, excuse me, it's called 
Hydroplane (or Hydrofoil, or just Hydro) and the short version is the 
b-side to the Skinhead Girl 7"...the long version (34 minutes) is on the 
Unrest CC 12" - sean]

        Well since I mentioned Versus' tshirts, let me just mention
Unrest's coffee mugs.  Ok I mentioned them.  :)
        Anyway, I think the real reason I had to go to see this show was
because I just recently saw the movie "Light of Day" with Micheal J Fox
and Joan Jett, much of which was filmed at the Eculid Tavern here in
Cleveland...anyway, this was like the most depressing movie I've seen in a
long time, mostly because they make Joan Jett's character out to be a
real loser because playing music, "rockin' out," is the only thing that
matters to her: "I gotta hear that beat! DOOZHDOOZHDOOZHDOOZH!!!" Whereas
Micheal J Fox is the "hero" because he wants to work in a factory and
uphold these trad middle-america values instead of doing something
worthwhile like playing in a band.  Terrible. Anyway, I had to go to the
"Euc" just to see...just to see people "rockin' out"...  I mean, if this
movie had been about Mozart or something, you know that those same
sentiments would be seen as heroic, you know?  Anyway, for anyone who has
seen this movie, it is a highly accurate portrayal of Cleveland in
general, which is even more depressing, but the Euclid Tavern is a lot
cooler in has really sort of "blossomed" in the last couple
years into a sort of Cleveland CBGB's.  Maybe that should have said
"wilted" :)


PS: I apologize if any of my remarks about the bass players are taken as
being with anything but the highest regard toward the above individuals as
bass players, band members and human beings! 


From: karlof chris knox <>
Subject: Thinkin' fellers - Friendly show and sk'lasfg'aklsdfg

Thinking Fellers new album (sorry forgot the name) (Scratch Records)

So has anyone bought/listened to the new Thinking Feller's record? I
believe it is on Scratch records. I wonder why it isn't on Matador. Well
it definitely isnt like their latest EP that was on Matador. Their new
album is more like their first full lengther. I tend to like the stuff on
the "bishops..." EP and the Natural finger 7" but the racket they make on
the new record is good too. It is a whole lot less accessible then the
stuff on the "...bishops..." EP on Matador, but it is pretty good anyway.
If you like wacky rock that is played skillfully and intelligently, then
the Thinkin' fellers are for you.  if i had to rate it : * 3/4

My band, Analogue played with Mark Cornick's band, Friendly, and Uglyhead
at the Metro in Richmond on Jan 14th. The metro is a very weird place to
play. First of all, i enjoyed the food that they serve there. It was
pretty decent. The fact that it was a very cold night attracted quite a
few addicted derelicts into the club. They were weird. They were talking
to us like we were a cover band or asking us to play
specific songs. We were confused. The night was plagued with problems. Our
guitarist's amp was attracting noise that was louder than his guitar. The
soundman was very patient and we ended up borrowing Friendly's bass amp
;-) ;-). We had a bad night and all, but enough about us....i am supposed
to talk about Friendly since Mark was modest enough to say only two lines
about himself! ;-) ;-)

I have seen very few bands like Friendly before. The only thing i could
compare them to is another band from Richmond called Eeyore. Friendly uses
all sorts of instruments including various percussion, clarinet,
eggbeater, etc. (btw Mark, i could hear the eggbeater through the PA).
They have two bass guitars, but it doesnt "sound" like two basses. Being a
bass player, i found Cyndy's "style" of playing somewhat distasteful, but
i dont think she was trying to fill the traditional role. she played bass
like she played clarinet. she made a lot of racket and it didnt seem to
matter what she was playing. it just made this "tone" that added to the
music. it is kinda strange when the only instrument that sounds
"traditional" are the drums! It was really interesting because everyone
was coaxing weird sounds out of their instruments. I think individually
each instrument would sound horrible, but when they get all together they
create a tone that is interesting. some of my favorite things were : 

1) the eggbeater
2) the "surround" sound - in one song almost everyone got off the stage
	and ran around the audience playing their (acoustic) instruments.
	it was annoying at first, but then pretty fun.
3) they had a "buffet" with green gumdrops! Yummy!

everyone was dressed up in stange outfits also. I think it was vital part
of the performance and would be missed if everyone just wore jeans. mark
had duct tape on his nipples....ouch! If you live around Richmond check
them out next time.  [Wot? Mark's nips? - L.]

Also, the Friendly/Uglyhead/Mark household are all very friendly. If you
are touring, stop by Richmond and say hi. 

that's all for this time,


Subject: I am a big dork.

[One day later...]

Being the big dork i am, I thought that the THinkin feller's album i
reviewed was a new one. Well, when i got back to my room the other night,
i discovered that there was a good reason that it sounded like older TFU
stuff! It WAS an older album. It must be a re-release or something that i
have just been blind to! Sorry, about that folks. I still didnt get the
name of the album. sigh

chris karlof


Reactions to my random mumblings from last issue...

From: Sean Keric Murphy (

Ordinarily, I wouldn't do something like this, but I think that Kristen
made some really good points in responding to what I had to say last time
around, and they're worth putting out there for everyone to read. (I
apologize in advance for the sloppy editing - this started as a letter to
me with a reply back to Kristin and then a second reply to me... so it
might not read too clearly... all my repeated comments are denoted by the
"S>" marks, Kristen's by the "K>" ... and thanks again, Kristen, for
letting me reprint this...)


From: "Kristen M. Lehner" <>
Subject: feeling really anal, but...

Hi, my name's kristen and i've been reading the list for about a year or
so.  i love it because it's hard to find out about a lot of indie bands if
they're not from your particular area and i also love seeing various
personalities and opinions towards bands that i love. 

anyway, i'll get to my point.  reading your little commentary-type-thing
in the last list was interesting and enjoyable and brought up a lot of
things that i certainly agree with you on, especially seeing live bands
and how it can change one's whole perception and appreciation of what they
do and who they are.  however, (you knew that was coming) the following
excerpt sort of bothered me... 

S> First time I saw Tsunami, I was more in awe of
S>seeing them than I was at the music (various reasons... mostly related to
S>the fact that these people released a Bricks song, and they put on a 2 day
S>festival with 20 bands, and they let me stay at their house... and Jenny
S>was really, really cute :) ) The more I see them, the more I appreciate
S>what they're doing musically, especially in the "rhythm" department. 
S>(Yes, Jenny's still cute, but I'd rather try to figure out what Andrew's
S>playing... :) 

i fully realize that you meant no harm at all in mentioning jenny in terms
of her appearance and andrew in terms of his playing, but it just happens
so often in reviews and general conversation that i couldn't help but
writing you and letting you know how someone with the other set perceives

the reason i love indie music and local scenes is because, usually,
there's none of that going on.  pretty much everyone is there to have fun
and see great bands.  it would never occur to me to write to rolling stone
with a complaint such as this, because it really doesn't affect my life or
my "scene."  it just struck so close to home seeing it on the list that i
couldn't help but writing and wasting your time (sorry). 

i hope you don't take this as my being overly defensive or whatever.  i'm
not trying to flame, i really am trying to be rational.  i would sincerely
like to hear your feelings on this, though, so i hope you can find time to



From: Sean Keric Murphy <skmurphy@phoenix.Princeton.EDU>
To: "Kristen M. Lehner" <>
Subject: Re: feeling really anal, but...

K>i fully realize that you meant no harm at all in mentioning jenny in terms
K>of her appearance and andrew in terms of his playing, but it just happens
K>so often in reviews and general conversation that i couldn't help but
K>writing you and letting you know how someone with the other set perceives

Thanks for realizing what I was getting at (sorta) - I guess what I was
trying to say is that it took time for me to appreciate their live shows -
the first one didn't do a lot for me musically.  I wasn't trying to be
obnoxious or sexist or anything else except honest.  And I sorta feel like
most folks on the list know me by now (based on volume of messages
written, etc.) and would see what I was saying.  But you're totally right
- there were other ways to say it and I should have thought more (then
again, I take this as a sorta on-the-fly enterprise... if we edited,
cross-referenced, and fact-checked the way we should, it would only come
out once a month rather than twice a week...)

K>the reason i love indie music and local scenes is because, usually, there's
K>none of that going on.  pretty much everyone is there to have fun and see
K>great bands.  it would never occur to me to write to rolling stone with a
K>complaint such as this, because it really doesn't affect my life or my
K>"scene."  it just struck so close to home seeing it on the list...   

right.  I'm not saying that the only reason I like "band x" is that
someone is technically proficient on their instrument or that the lead
singer is cute (and that applies to men and women - I could put together a
decent number of indie-"crushes" regardless of gender), but because
they're making interesting music.  And at the same time, other factors can
make a difference in one's perception of a band, for better or for worse. 

For example - I'm not a big fan of Mudhoney's recent music.  Why?  Because
the songs have gotten boring, not 'cause they're ripping off Blue Cheer
and the Sonics on a daily basis (they've always done that :), not 'cause
they're on a major label (the band's self-opinion is far more important
than the source of the paycheck - part of I-L philosophy from the
beginning), not 'cause Steve Turner looks like a dweeb.  :)

Not the most coherent of arguments, but do you understand my point?
K>i hope you don't take this as my being overly defensive or whatever.  i'm
K>not trying to flame, i really am trying to be rational.  

No offense taken - you made some really good points!  things I had sorta 
missed in the "late-night-just-got-out-of-the-damn-cafeteria-dishroom" 
mental state in which that article was written.  Indie-music is about 
music and feelings, and that's crucial.  Of course, it's partly about 
people, too - I have extreme difficulty thinking of Ric Menck without 
immediately saying "asshole" due to his antics when Velvet Crush played 
here 2 years ago, and that may have affected my feelings toward Velvet 
Crush as a band... I still love "Ash And Earth" but their LP left me a 
little cold.  So, there's a mix in there for everyone.  And with me, 
well, I'm probably too close to Tsunami to write about them objectively.  
And I don't want to write with clinical, surgical objectivity, but it's 
important to see the other side (especially when you believe in the other 
side but momentarily forget it).  Thanks!    



From: "Kristen M. Lehner" <>
To: Sean Keric Murphy <skmurphy@phoenix>
Subject: Re: feeling really anal, but...

S>Thanks for realizing what I was getting at (sorta) - I guess what I was 
S>trying to say is that it took time for me to appreciate their live shows 
S>- the first one didn't do a lot for me musically.  I wasn't trying to be 
S>obnoxious or sexist or anything else except honest. 

yeah, the more i thought about what i had written after i sent it, i kind
of understood even more that you were only being honest.  i respect that
and i appreciate it. 

I think a lot has to do with (at least in my case) finding what else is
out there and sort of making comparisons.  last night i was so depressed
because i listened to 7 year bitch's "sic' em" and was disappointed by it
for the first time in about one hundred listens.  the production was
awful, selene's voice sounded strained...  i was so mad at myself for
being critical of my favorite band, but i couldn't help it and now i'll
probably never really feel the same about hearing them recorded.  (unless,
of course, their new album is an improvement and comes closer to the magic
they produce live.  for me anyway.) i still love them and will probably
sell my little brother for a chance to see them live again, but i hope you
get my point. 

[Sean's comments about Mr. Menck deleted...]

laugh  and i love the jesus lizard, but david yow is about the most
obnoxious drunk i've ever seen live.  actually, maybe that's why i love
thanks, sean, for being cool about all of this.  i really appreciate your
honesty and straightforwardness.  i suppose i wouldn't mind if you put it
in the next issue.  i guess i have this fear of coming across as the
"reactionary feminist bitch," but if it'll do good, then i say go for it. 

take care,


More mumbling from the editor...

If you can, please go see Scrawl on this tour...they're a great fucking 
band, put on a killer live show, their records are cool, yeah.  GO. 

1/28 - CBGB. New York
1/29 - 9:30 Club. Washington DC
1/30 - The Rev. Baltimore
1/31 - Cat's Cradle.  Chapel Hill

I'll definitely be at the DC show, maybe the two after it as well (i've
been offered a ride from DC, and the Grifters and Rocket From The Crypt
are playing in Chapel Hill, too, but classes start on monday... 
decisions...).  So any of you DC/Balto folks who missed me at the Working
Holiday fest (which is all of you, I think... when am I going to meet
Alekz Vermont? :) can try to find me there.  I'm 5'10, about 180 lbs.,
short brown hair (sorta crew-cut-ish), and I'll be wearing a t-shirt of
Wink Martindale (yes, Mr. Tic-Tac-Dough). 




	Slow Loris, a Richmond-based semi-multi-instrumentalist three
piece, announces the birth of a 0'7" healthy strapping baby vinyl music
recording. It's three songs, one redone from an earlier ten-song cassette,
two brand new.  I find comparisons hard, thankfully, but I guess it's be
easiest to mention pop and folk as being involved.  Jenny's lyrics and
vocals need to be experienced rather than described.  Nice cover art.  You
might find it in yer home town, but you can also send $2 (send cash or
make check to Mike Kasenter) to PO Box 14665 Richmond VA 23221.  WARNING: 
We are not a Canadian instrumental Slint-esque band that also bears that
name.  But we're good. You can also get a ten song cassette of four track
shtuff for $2 same address. 


[One line over the length limit, guys..... - Lena]


The Indie-List Digest is published almost every Tuesday and Friday by the
Indie-List Infotainment Junta, Unltd. 

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